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Post by Joe Lyddon on Apr 30, 2010 20:12:56 GMT -8
PHOENIX (AP) - Gov. Jan Brewer on Friday signed a follow-on bill approved by Arizona legislators that make revisions to the state's sweeping law against illegal immigration - changes she says should quell concerns that the measure will lead to racial profiling. The law requires local and state law enforcement to question people about their immigration status if there's reason to suspect they're in the country illegally, and makes it a state crime to be in the United States illegally. The follow-on bill signed by Brewer makes a number of changes that she said should lay to rest concerns of opponents. "These new statements make it crystal clear and undeniable that racial profiling is illegal, and will not be tolerated in Arizona," she said in a statement. Complete story: apnews1.iwon.com//article/20100501/D9FDPME81.html Be sure to see Theodore Roosevelt's comments on immigration and being an American a little further down in the postings.
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Post by bnc on May 4, 2010 5:49:27 GMT -8
as much as people complain about illegals taking jobs, try getting all of them out of the country and then see where the economy goes.
no thank you.
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Post by Joe Lyddon on May 4, 2010 10:07:13 GMT -8
as much as people complain about illegals taking jobs, try getting all of them out of the country and then see where the economy goes. no thank you. I don't think that is the Big Complaint... Here in Calif. & there in Arizona, it's a lot more of a problem with:1. Many are pure criminals organizing gangs, etc. 2. Filling our jails & prisons. 3. Getting free medical care to the point where many hospitals are forced Out of Business because they cannot afford it. (They're getting FREE medical care NOW!) 4. Welfare costs skyrocketing putting a huge tax burden on the Real Taxpayers. (Yes, they are getting Welfare without ever having paid any taxes toward it) 5. MOST of the illegal aliens are here to merely sponge off the nation, for FREE... 6. Those that DO have jobs, paying no taxes, etc., many send money back HOME draining our economy even more. 7. How they can qualify for Soc. Sec. benefits is beyond my comprehension; our taxes going down the drain without any being paid. edit: I forgot to mentions Schools! That is another Can of Worms!And last but not least, some say they are filling jobs that our unemployed (12%-15%) could fill... I personally think that THAT is a very minor problem compared to the others. If you have not lived where it's happening, it might be difficult to really be aware of the Overall problem. I also feel that an OVERALL amnesty would be a terrible error... making all of the above problems even MORE of a problem. If we are going to develop a plan where they can BECOME citizens, I feel it should be done in a very carefully thought-out manner and NOT just given away with a pen stroke without any work on their part. To Qualify, they must: (not specifically in this order)1. Be able to be gainfully employed and have a Sponsored possible Employer. (If they already have jobs, the Employer to be given amnesty for breaking the law by hiring them.) 2. NOT have a Criminal record of committing other crimes with Jail & prison terms. 3. Be willing to learn English and LEARN it. 4. Be able to Speak, READ and WRITE English. 5. Be schooled in our nations History. 6. Be Vouched for by at least 5 existing citizens. 7. Be willing to Fight, in wars & conflicts, to defend the U.S.A. 8. Pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States. 9. Pass a Test that is written in English on our History and Laws. (Be able to study to retake the test a total of a maximum of 3 times until they pass it) 10. Take the Oath, the same Oath, that others are taking upon to become citizens. If they cannot meet the main starting qualifications above, SENT BACK HOME where they came from. If they CAN and DO meet all of the above qualifications, be proudly accepted to be Citizens of the United States of America.I also feel that we should have a National Sales, Income Tax, to at least collect taxes on ALL money spent... Which would get taxes from the illegally obtained money. Those are just My thoughts on how it should be handled...
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Post by Joe Lyddon on May 8, 2010 14:50:56 GMT -8
Arizona State Senator Sylvia Allen responds to SB1070
For the record, in case the Link eventually turns bad:
The people who live within 60 to 80 miles of the Arizona/Mexico Border have for years been terrorized and have pleaded for help to stop the daily invasion of humans who cross their property . One Rancher testified that 300 to 1200 people a DAY come across his ranch vandalizing his property, stealing his vehicles and property, cutting down his fences, and leaving trash. In the last two years he has found 17 dead bodies and two Koran bibles. Another rancher testified that daily drugs are brought across his ranch in a military operation. A point man with a machine gun goes in front, 1/2 mile behind are the guards fully armed, 1/2 mile behind them are the drugs, behind the drugs 1/2 mile are more guards. These people are violent and they will kill anyone who gets in the way. This was not the only rancher we heard that day that talked about the drug trains. One man told of two illegal’s who came upon his property one shot in the back and the other in the arm by the drug runners who had forced them to carry the drugs and then shot them. Daily they listen to gun fire during the night it is not safe to leave his family alone on the ranch and they can’t leave the ranch for fear of nothing being left when they come back.
The border patrol is not on the border. They have set up 60 miles away with check points that do nothing to stop the invasion. They are not allowed to use force in stopping anyone who is entering. They run around chasing them, if they get their hands on them then they can take them back across the border. Federal prisons have over 35% illegal’s and 20% of Arizona prisons are filled with illegal’s. In the last few years 80% of our law enforcement that have been killed or wounded have been by an illegal. The majority of people coming now are people we need to be worried about. The ranchers told us that they have seen a change in the people coming they are not just those who are looking for work and a better life.
The Federal Government has refused for years to do anything to help the border states . We have been over run and once they are here we have the burden of funding state services that they use. Education costs have been over a billion dollars. The healthcare cost billions of dollars. Our State is broke, $3.5 billion deficit and we have many serious decisions to make. One is that we do not have the money to care for any who are not here legally. It has to stop.
The border can be secured. We have the technology and we have the ability to stop this invasion. We must know who is coming and they must come in an organized manner legally so that we can assimilate them into our population and protect the sovereignty of our country. We are a nation of laws. We have a responsibility to protect our citizens and to protect the integrity of our country and the government which we live under. I would give amnesty today to many, but here is the problem, we dare not do this until the Border is secure. It will do no good to give them amnesty because thousands will come behind them and we will be over run to the point that there will no longer be the United States of America but a North American Union of open borders. I ask you what form of government will we live under? How long will it be before we will be just like Mexico , Canada or any of the other Central American or South American country? We have already lost our language, everything must be printed in Spanish. We have already lost our history, it is no longer taught in our schools, and we have lost our borders.
The leftist media has distorted what SB 1070 will do. It is not going to set up a Nazi Germany. Are you kidding? The ACLU and the leftist courts will do everything to protect those who are here illegally, but it was an effort to try and stop illegal’s from setting up businesses, and employment, and receiving state services and give the ability to local law enforcement when there is probable cause, like a traffic stop, to determine if they are here legally. Federal law is very clear, if you are here on a visa you must have your papers on you at all times. That is the law. In Arizona all you need to show you are a legal citizen is a driver license, MVD identification card, Native American Card, or a Military ID. This is what you need to vote or get a hunting license. So nothing new has been added to this law. No one is going to be stopped walking down the street. The Socialists who are in power in DC are angry because we dare try and do something.The Socialists wants us to just let them come. They want the “Transformation” to continue.
Maybe it is too late to save America . Maybe we are not worthy of freedom anymore. But as an elected official I must try to do what I can to protect our Constitutional Republic . Living in America is not a right just because you can walk across the border. Being an American is a responsibility and it comes by respecting and upholding the Constitution, the law of our land, which says what you must do to be a citizen of this country. FREEDOM IS NOT FREE.
Senator Sylvia Allen .
The Actual Senate Bill
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Post by Joe Lyddon on May 16, 2010 21:20:26 GMT -8
Theodore Roosevelt in 1907 had some thoughts on immigration...
The year is 1907, one hundred and 3+ years ago.
Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907. "In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language.. And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people." Theodore Roosevelt 1907
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Post by wareagle on May 17, 2010 15:41:26 GMT -8
Your solution is like using a sheet of plywood to swat a fly. It's overkill and won't work.
The quoted statement reveals your folly. This video will help you see why. BTW, the fair tax is nothing but a national sales tax.
and part II
You are willing to kill the economy to get rid of illegals who, if one were to simply enforce existing laws, would be deported? How silly.
Oaths and pledges... I pledge oaths and allegiance only to God Our Father and Creator. No political entity, flag, border, nor politician is worthy of the same allegiance.
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Post by Joe Lyddon on May 17, 2010 16:21:18 GMT -8
I think your Videos are just a bunch of Hocus Pocus in an attempt to confuse the issue. I'm not proposing a "Fair" tax... I'm proposing a National Sales Tax... (instead of the Natl. Income Tax) If money is Spent on anything, the tax is collected... food, utilities, phones, cars, TV's, everything. If money is sent out of the country, the Tax will be collected on it too. People will still continue to make money because they like what it will BUY... what I'm saying is Instead of the Withholding tax for Income Tax, it would be the National Sales Tax... The only loophole would be for Low Income families which would be exempt from the tax... maybe churches too...(but they had better be here legally!) The IRS would be the Internal Refund Service. The drug dealers who like their fancy cars, etc. will be paying THE TAX also... As far as illegal immigration is concerned, "illegal" means against the law. If they cannot be here legally, YES, they should be deported... and I will personally pay my share to get it done. If they want to be citizens, they can follow Teddy Roosevelt's comments on the subject. It seems like what you're saying is that everything is rosy right now because most of the Illegals are getting a FREE RIDE & THAT is one of the main reasons AZ & CA are in so much trouble right now... AZ is tired of paying their bills and is STOPPING it. I'm not saying my idea is solid and ready for implementation... BUT I feel it's better than what we're currently doing. ;D
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Post by Joe Lyddon on May 17, 2010 16:40:12 GMT -8
Oaths and pledges... I pledge oaths and allegiance only to God Our Father and Creator. No political entity, flag, border, nor politician is worthy of the same allegiance. Are you an American citizen born here in the USA?
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Post by wareagle on May 17, 2010 17:05:02 GMT -8
I'm not proposing a "Fair" tax... I'm proposing a National Sales Tax... (instead of the Natl. Income Tax)... It seems like what you're saying is that everything is rosy right now The "Fair Tax" is the national sales tax. It will make a class of people engaging in peaceful mutually beneficial commerce like doctors, clergy, ... and make them criminals unless they follow the dictates of the state, destroy their revenue stream, steal private customer's economic surplus, and enrich the bureaucracy. That is not justice. That is tyranny. If a drug dealer is willing to break the law to make a living, what makes you think the drug dealer is willing to pay the national sales tax? Every nation that taxes or regulates commerce has an underground or "black market" that emerges. Those trading in the black market do not pay any taxes. There is no justice in taxation. It only oppresses those of us who are law abiding good folks and puts us at risk. An example of this is the plumber, electrician, or whatever service man who quotes two prices. The cash price is the price charged when there is no intention to pay taxes. The other price is the price he has to charge because the payment creates a paper trail. Deadweight loss is not obfuscation of the facts. It is a real economic phenomenon that comes along with the national income and sales tax. The videos are not hocus pocus nor any other ad hominem slight. I can't agree with the concept that we should economically shoot ourselves in the foot because we don't like the fact that a drug dealer buys a "fancy car." I never suggested things are rosy. I suggested that instead of passing more laws, creating part of the framework of a national ID card, and growing an already scary police state, we should just enforce the already draconian laws. The government's own Office of Management and Budget admits to around 20,000 border patrol agents, spending $20 billion we don't have to add technological gimmicks to the boarder, and have 33,000 prison beds to house illegals on their way back to their country of origin. They are spending hundreds of millions of dollars on e-verify, and spending $6 billion on aviation support for the border. With those resources, they can't even make a dent in the number of illegals in the country. Finally, I would like to see the data that proves illegals are here for a free ride. The illegals around here tend to be the people doing the back breaking manual labor like busing tables, laying bricks, and gutting chickens that US citizens won't do because welfare subsidizes their listlessness.
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Post by wareagle on May 17, 2010 17:12:32 GMT -8
Oaths and pledges... I pledge oaths and allegiance only to God Our Father and Creator. No political entity, flag, border, nor politician is worthy of the same allegiance. Are you an American citizen born here in the USA? Born and bread red white and blue who's blood line came to these shores in 1623 at Plymouth Rock.
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Post by Joe Lyddon on May 17, 2010 20:48:22 GMT -8
wareagle, I don't understand that... There are ways to establish controls so things that are purchased for resale are accounted for... If holes in the inventory, etc. The Retailer would have to pay the lost Tax. Some spending items can have the Tax charged & collected automatically... like food, utilities, autos, boats, tools, motorcycles, fuel, etc. The items missed, tax not collected on, will end up as cash that WILL eventually have to be spent to have tax collected on it. Businesses would be subject to audit just like the Calif. State Board of Equalization does for Sales Tax... They are pretty good at nailing down taxes that they should have got... and they charge the business & collect. Car sales are one of the easiest to control to get the taxes required... Caught in Registration of a new (to customer) or given to a friend or inherited... The taxes could be collected on the true value of the items... If they drive w/o registration and licenses, they will eventually get caught... OK, what laws would you enforce that would solve the major part of our problems? Immigration laws? OK, we are being "invaded"... I think you will agree to that. Invaded by people that are illegally entering our country... That is WAR. Let's fight the WAR like WAR is to be fought... Troops along our borders... along with technical measures like using drones, satellites, dogs, etc. to do their thing. When someone is caught, there is no question about it... They were trying to come from "There" to come "Here"... Easy to take care of... BOOK & fingerprint'em and have Their Government come and get them and charge THE government the cost! If re-caught three times or more, their Government MUST PAY US an additional penalty... Their Government should also be trying to STOP their people from trying to come Here. Have prisons (holding tanks) in the immediate vicinities so THEY can get Their people back home. ... and if people get shot in the process, too bad. Well, if they were paying their way, we would NOT be having the problem we ARE having keeping hospitals open giving FREE medical care, schools, welfare, prisons, jails, etc. etc. the additional cost to Print Everything in a Foreign Language (I'm getting tired of looking FOR the English text to read in manuals, notices, etc. etc. etc.! If they cannot learn English, too bad... let them fend for themselves & take the consequences... Ballots to be in English too! We're killing twice as many trees just in paper printing costs!! The Tail is wagging the DOG and must be STOPPED! AZ & CA has far more problems than Arkansas has with this... You have no idea what it's like... You're NOT here! ;D Let me ask you this... Would the people, crossing our borders illegally, be willing to die protecting our Country? I don't think so. ... but I'll bet they would for THEIR country. We don't need that... We cannot afford it! OK, I say get the troops required and fight the WAR like it should be fought, etc. etc. How would you like to see the problems solved?
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Post by wisardd1 on May 17, 2010 20:52:48 GMT -8
as much as people complain about illegals taking jobs, try getting all of them out of the country and then see where the economy goes. no thank you. OK, so you have to cut your own front lawn, the dishes at the restaurants will be scarce, you might have to clean your own house, you might have to grow your own strawberries and other veggies, you might have to hire a real handy man rather than a home depot parking lot vagrant, you will pay more for your clothes. And your point is?
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Post by Joe Lyddon on May 17, 2010 21:08:41 GMT -8
Are you an American citizen born here in the USA? Born and bread red white and blue who's blood line came to these shores in 1623 at Plymouth Rock. Therefore, you would be willing to fight & die for your country as many have done before us? I would... right now, I feel like KICKING some A$$! Do you think the illegal immigrants would be willing to fight & die for our great USA?
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Post by bnc on May 18, 2010 16:54:00 GMT -8
as much as people complain about illegals taking jobs, try getting all of them out of the country and then see where the economy goes. no thank you. OK, so you have to cut your own front lawn, the dishes at the restaurants will be scarce, you might have to clean your own house, you might have to grow your own strawberries and other veggies, you might have to hire a real handy man rather than a home depot parking lot vagrant, you will pay more for your clothes. And your point is? point is, I don't want to do any of that crap, so I pay someone else to. except I will have to pay 3-4x because the people doing it are white. no thanks.
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Post by bnc on May 18, 2010 16:55:32 GMT -8
wareagle, I don't understand that... There are ways to establish controls so things that are purchased for resale are accounted for... If holes in the inventory, etc. The Retailer would have to pay the lost Tax. Some spending items can have the Tax charged & collected automatically... like food, utilities, autos, boats, tools, motorcycles, fuel, etc. The items missed, tax not collected on, will end up as cash that WILL eventually have to be spent to have tax collected on it. Businesses would be subject to audit just like the Calif. State Board of Equalization does for Sales Tax... They are pretty good at nailing down taxes that they should have got... and they charge the business & collect. Car sales are one of the easiest to control to get the taxes required... Caught in Registration of a new (to customer) or given to a friend or inherited... The taxes could be collected on the true value of the items... If they drive w/o registration and licenses, they will eventually get caught... OK, what laws would you enforce that would solve the major part of our problems? Immigration laws? OK, we are being "invaded"... I think you will agree to that. Invaded by people that are illegally entering our country... That is WAR. Let's fight the WAR like WAR is to be fought... Troops along our borders... along with technical measures like using drones, satellites, dogs, etc. to do their thing. When someone is caught, there is no question about it... They were trying to come from "There" to come "Here"... Easy to take care of... BOOK & fingerprint'em and have Their Government come and get them and charge THE government the cost! If re-caught three times or more, their Government MUST PAY US an additional penalty... Their Government should also be trying to STOP their people from trying to come Here. Have prisons (holding tanks) in the immediate vicinities so THEY can get Their people back home. ... and if people get shot in the process, too bad. Well, if they were paying their way, we would NOT be having the problem we ARE having keeping hospitals open giving FREE medical care, schools, welfare, prisons, jails, etc. etc. the additional cost to Print Everything in a Foreign Language (I'm getting tired of looking FOR the English text to read in manuals, notices, etc. etc. etc.! If they cannot learn English, too bad... let them fend for themselves & take the consequences... Ballots to be in English too! We're killing twice as many trees just in paper printing costs!! The Tail is wagging the DOG and must be STOPPED! AZ & CA has far more problems than Arkansas has with this... You have no idea what it's like... You're NOT here! ;D Let me ask you this... Would the people, crossing our borders illegally, be willing to die protecting our Country? I don't think so. ... but I'll bet they would for THEIR country. We don't need that... We cannot afford it! OK, I say get the troops required and fight the WAR like it should be fought, etc. etc. How would you like to see the problems solved? I thought one of your big points was that they were making money here and sending it back to Mexico, et. al. A national sales tax wouldn't address that at all, in fact, they would probably send MORE back.
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