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Post by johnnyb on Aug 22, 2013 21:21:54 GMT -8
I just discovered that that I do not need to worry about cabinet door panel expansion if they are plywood. This makes a lot of sense now that I think about it because I have glued cabinet door panels for years without any clearance or any problems and never knew exactly why. With everybody so worried about expansion I never brought it up and just thought I was lucky, but then again I’ve actually never made a panel out of hardwood, only plywood.
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Post by cabinetman on Aug 23, 2013 2:43:33 GMT -8
I just discovered that that I do not need to worry about cabinet door panel expansion if they are plywood. This makes a lot of sense now that I think about it because I have glued cabinet door panels for years without any clearance or any problems and never knew exactly why. With everybody so worried about expansion I never brought it up and just thought I was lucky, but then again I’ve actually never made a panel out of hardwood, only plywood. You can glue in a plywood panel, and that makes for a very rigid door. Panels that are ¼" thick makes for an easy flat panel. If you want raised panels and want to use plywood, you could use ¾" plywood. Add a solid wood edge to your plywood panel, and miter the edges. Then you can machine any detail on the edge you want. You also will wind up with long grain on the ends that way, which will finish much better than endgrain. .
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Post by johnnyb on Aug 23, 2013 3:43:38 GMT -8
Thanks for verifying the plywood and I would like to see some photos of a raised plywood panel.
The funny thing was that I’ve been building all sorts of things out of plywood for at least 40 years and the expansion thing just never came up. I have heard warnings over the years about expansion, but never really understood what the big deal was.
I’ve been planning to build some shaker doors for at least a couple of months and was considering raised panel doors. I’ve been preparing myself with a special router bit set for doors, watching videos and just spending too much time trying to decide on what I want. All the expansion warnings have spooked me enough to just focus on everything else instead of the doors, but now there’s nothing else to do except for the doors.
So now armed with this new information, I’m going with flat plywood panels and be done with it. Someday I’ll take the time to actually build a raised panel door. Maybe after I retire and have more time.
Anyway this is the video were I learned about plywood. It was Sommerfeld's Shaker Raised Panels Made Easy were he showed a flat plywood panel door.
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Post by cabinetman on Aug 23, 2013 6:54:13 GMT -8
For ¾" plywood panels to be used for raised panels, I add a ¾" thick solid wood, at least 1" wide to be glued to the edge of the plywood. Most edge profiles to the solid wood will leave about 1/8" or less of flat to flush out with the plywood. That will sand flat to the plywood and would barely be visible. The raised panels I made for the bar below, were done that way. It may be hard to see. . .
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Post by johnnyb on Aug 23, 2013 8:03:20 GMT -8
Wow that sure is some piece of woodwork there. Thanks for showing it.
Ok I think I got the idea now. I was having trouble visualizing how the solid wood was integrating in to the plywood, but now that I understand that edge of the solid is on the edge of the raised panel cut, I see that its virtually invisible.
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Post by Joe Lyddon on Aug 24, 2013 10:58:52 GMT -8
I just discovered that that I do not need to worry about cabinet door panel expansion if they are plywood. This makes a lot of sense now that I think about it because I have glued cabinet door panels for years without any clearance or any problems and never knew exactly why. With everybody so worried about expansion I never brought it up and just thought I was lucky, but then again I’ve actually never made a panel out of hardwood, only plywood. Golly, Johnny, I'm glad you finally found out about plywood being STABLE... ... YES! It solves all kinds of problems... ;D
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Post by Joe Lyddon on Aug 24, 2013 11:01:34 GMT -8
Mike has done some GREAT work hasn't he? That's a fantastic bar! ;D
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Post by johnnyb on Aug 25, 2013 8:01:09 GMT -8
Mike has done some GREAT work hasn't he? That's a fantastic bar! ;D Yes he has.
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Post by johnnyb on Aug 25, 2013 8:14:35 GMT -8
Well I knew it was, but I was just so confused by all the talk about “must have floating panels” and “not getting paint or varnish in the dados”. Well now I know that’s only for solid wood. ;D Last year I made a wooden vent that could not have any metal in it so I glued it all together with exterior rated glue. Everything was plywood except the curved top which I made out of solid wood and I found out that the top pretty much exploded this summer in the sun. I thought it was the glue, but now I know that it was expansion.
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Post by Joe Lyddon on Aug 25, 2013 8:53:48 GMT -8
With a few Kerf cuts, you can make plywood Curve...
They sell Plywood that is made to curve too... (but, you want to be able to use it on more than just one small project. ;D )
It seems to me that Mike has used Plywood to Curve, etc. on some of his great projects... (?)
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Post by johnnyb on Aug 25, 2013 18:59:42 GMT -8
I may have to make two more vent covers and I'm going to do the top different. Maybe I 'll try the plywood all the way around
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Post by cabinetman on Aug 26, 2013 4:22:22 GMT -8
With a few Kerf cuts, you can make plywood Curve... They sell Plywood that is made to curve too... (but, you want to be able to use it on more than just one small project. ;D ) It seems to me that Mike has used Plywood to Curve, etc. on some of his great projects... (?) Joe...you have it right. Cutting kerfs can allow the plywood to bend. The depth, width, and spacing of the kerf will determine the radius that it will curve. What can make the curved plywood more rigid, is to fill the kerfs with Bondo, once the plywood is fixed to the desired curve. You can also use a bending plywood...called that, or "bendply", or "wigglewood", or "whacky wood", depending on the rednecks at the plywood supplier. You can use thinner bending ply, and glue them like a lamination to form the curve. You can also use a regular plywood, like ¼" for some larger radii. .
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Post by johnnyb on Aug 26, 2013 14:41:00 GMT -8
I’ll probably use the thin plywood and laminate multiple layers. My uncles used kerf cuts in their door & stair shop to form spiral staircases, but I never liked the idea. I don’t know, I just always felt it weakened the wood, but they used that technique for 50 years without any problems. I used Cove cuts on the table saw for this project because I wanted it to be strong enough to hold 6 ft of snow on top. It withstood the winter but didn’t stand up in the summer sun.
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Post by Joe Lyddon on Sept 1, 2013 7:20:10 GMT -8
With a few Kerf cuts, you can make plywood Curve... They sell Plywood that is made to curve too... (but, you want to be able to use it on more than just one small project. ;D ) It seems to me that Mike has used Plywood to Curve, etc. on some of his great projects... (?) Joe...you have it right. Cutting kerfs can allow the plywood to bend. The depth, width, and spacing of the kerf will determine the radius that it will curve. What can make the curved plywood more rigid, is to fill the kerfs with Bondo, once the plywood is fixed to the desired curve. You can also use a bending plywood...called that, or "bendply", or "wigglewood", or "whacky wood", depending on the rednecks at the plywood supplier. You can use thinner bending ply, and glue them like a lamination to form the curve. You can also use a regular plywood, like ¼" for some larger radii. . Using Bondo to fill the cracks, etc. is a darn good idea... that would make the stuff stronger than it was in the first place! I'll have to remember that! 1/4" ply might work too... or even 1/8" skin stuff... laminating, etc.
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